That would help, if you could, please explain yourself?

 

Well I'm not really sure how I would explain myself. My Mini gun spin down was apparently suspicious, And I'm not exactly sure what Giller meant by that.

From my point of view I was just having a good time with my friends on the server :)

Over all I'd rather be found innocent now an then be able to play on your servers again, rather than be watched by all of you for something I didn't do. I can see where Giller and the rest of the admins are coming from. I'm a Admin on my communities servers as well an we all want to make sure the game is as fun as possible without cheater's etc.

You've all a good one, I'll just wait for the verdict :)

Definitely something fishy going on there, man.

I don't know if the "don't be vigilantes" etc. means this case is closed, but for the record (and before I saw this topic), I thought he was slightly suspicious as well when in a game with him late yesterday (17th). Though it could have quite easily been server lag (which is around in abundance sometimes), we seemed to have roughly even speed (he was a heavy and I was a soldier). I vaguely recalled that he was banned for odd cool down times the day before, so I spec'd him for a few moments.

A note on cool down times, first: The length of a heavy's cool down depends on how long the barrel was spinning. The longer it was spinning, the longer the cool down time. However, if the heavy starts firing/alt keying the gun before it reaches the top of its cool down path, he doesn't suffer from any start up penalties. That being said, though, after spinning the barrel for several seconds, during the cool down time, the barrel will keep spinning in an upright position if the heavy doesn't start it spinning before it reaches the top of its path. This is what I noticed was lacking in this guy's heavy playing. At one point he spins the barrel for about 7 seconds then stops and the barrel stops spinning, too (this is without him starting it up again for several seconds).

My two recorded demo(man)s: http://www.mediafire.com...ad2aa0aed2db6fb9a8902bda

In macbeth1, specifically around 1:00, 1:29, 1:40, 1:54, 2:38, 3:13, and 3:29 are instances which I thought could be somewhat shady. At some points, if you go frame by frame, you see that the barrel stops dead while still in the firing position before he stops shooting. It should still keep spinning at least until it's in an upright position.

For sure. A little part of me was crying because he was such a helpful, nice guy in-game. When reports started coming in of foul play, I was also fairly suspicious. During spec, I saw some things to be amiss, and a small meeting was had with a result at the end. The offense in question wasn't entirely oblique, and thus the one-day ban, and civil treatment of the issue.

I agree with Endyss' decision, and would be very happy to see MacBeth come across our servers again.

Here's how tonight's discussion went. Endyss informed me that there was still concern about this ban. I came in to attempt mediation. I was met with severe hostility. Here's an example of how not to handle a ban dispute discussion, curtesy of Ed_The_Fuckboat:



{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: What's a demo?
ED_THE_WOLF_: well I have tried
ED_THE_WOLF_: argh
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Oh hi
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: I'm WDF
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: I apparently run this place
ED_THE_WOLF_: see what I mean
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Nice to meet you
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: There's a whole mess about ol' macbeth, eh?
ED_THE_WOLF_: The pleasure is all yours.
{pDs} SNoB: well i will upload the demo i made, and tell me if the runspeed is a bit too fast for a heavy
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Generally it is, yeah
Endyss [GwDR]: SNoB, I'll take a look at it.
{pDs} SNoB: ok lemme get on the forum and follow the procedure
Endyss [GwDR]: Much appreciated
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Look guys
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: I looked at the demos
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: It's too close to call it
{pDs} SNoB: i didnt get much of it before he was kicked
ED_THE_WOLF_: I think you got enough of it, snob
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: I'll look at snobs demo
{pDs} SNoB: i dunno, it just seems he runs really fast
ED_THE_WOLF_: We had three or four people spectating on him.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: I know, I've seen the thread
Endyss [GwDR]: If you read the post I made in the Ban Dispute Forum, I didn't say he for sure WASN'T cheating, just that the evidence there wasn't clear enough to warrant a permaban
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Right
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: We do take this stuff seriously guys.
ED_THE_WOLF_: Great!
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Please understand, we want to avoid the trap that most servers fall into with over zealous admins
ED_THE_WOLF_: 1 time cheating is not enough
Endyss [GwDR]: One tme cheating is plenty
Endyss [GwDR]: But there has to be evidence of it
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: I've been banned from two dozen servers for cheating
ED_THE_WOLF_: nice to know
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: This is why we have a  careful review process
ED_THE_WOLF_: good, so people who actually cheat get the best benefit
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Excuse me?
ED_THE_WOLF_: check around, see what otehr servers have banned this guy
ED_THE_WOLF_: do your job
Endyss [GwDR]: ED, let me ask you a question, casting pearls though it may be.
ED_THE_WOLF_: This is really sloppy.
Endyss [GwDR]: What do you think of the phrase "innocent until proven guilty"?
ED_THE_WOLF_: Ask away.
ED_THE_WOLF_: yeah, but three eyewitnesses, noob.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: What's sloppy is banning first, asking questions later
ED_THE_WOLF_: Learn law before actiing like a noob again
Endyss [GwDR]: o_O
ED_THE_WOLF_: we didn't ban first
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: oh man
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Engage!
{pDs} SNoB: calm down ed
ED_THE_WOLF_: we got three eyewitnesses and two different demos
{pDs} SNoB: please
ED_THE_WOLF_: I am calm, but, I will not play on PDS until this is sorted out.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: And we have demos, and a group of veteran admins, including myself, who have said it's too close to call.
Endyss [GwDR]: Ed, I'm about 3 months away from taking my state bar exam, at which point I will be a full-on lawyer.  Please don't talk to me about knowing the law when you pepper all your arguments with "noob"
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: With your attitude, I hardly give a shit whether or not you wish to play with us again.
Endyss [GwDR]: I appreciate that you feel strongly that he was cheating, but a respect for the people that make the final judgment call is a REQUIREMENT for your appeals to be taken seriously.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Nah
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Endyss, don't bother
ED_THE_WOLF_: Ok, endyss. I believe you. And my attitude toward hackers is obviously better than just asking him in the forums if he hacks.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Yeah, this is a losing battle here
ED_THE_WOLF_: because he hacked
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: So your solution is to attack my integrity when I personally come in to hear your side of it?
Endyss [GwDR]: And just to let you know, in you know, "the law", there is a procedure whereby someone can lose the right to bring their cases before the court.  It's called disbarment, sanctioning, whatever you like, and it's given for people who disrespect the court.  Disrepecting me is bad enough, but insulting the guy who runs the servers tiptoes the line of the completely unacceptable.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Snob, where is your demo?
ED_THE_WOLF_: I do not understand why this guy is allowed back in after he was clearly caught cheating
{pDs} SNoB: did you guys watch fat pigeons demo?
ED_THE_WOLF_: Nobody is above the law, endyss.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: It's a video game.
ED_THE_WOLF_: Snob, I need some help here. These guys are really being adamant.
ED_THE_WOLF_: I don't like cheaters.
{pDs} SNoB: yeah, and your atitude isnt helping much ed
Endyss [GwDR]: I agree, and I'm not putting MacBeth above it.  I'm saying that our servers require clear evidence of hacking.  The evidence so far was NOT clear in the minds of the people who make the call (of which you are not one).  It's not our fault, it's the evidence is lacking
ED_THE_WOLF_: Well, I feel like I am surrounding by thumb twiddling yes men.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: :|
Endyss [GwDR]: Ok, let me end this here.
ED_THE_WOLF_: This is ridiculous. Snob, Giller, and me.
ED_THE_WOLF_: You are being stubborn.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Can we pause this for a second?
Endyss [GwDR]: 'course
ED_THE_WOLF_: 30 min. recess, judge endyss?
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: I'm going to once again review pigeons demos
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Or we can end this here, Ed
ED_THE_WOLF_: Thanks you.
ED_THE_WOLF_: Can I see it?
{pDs} SNoB: lets just stop name calling for a few minutes while my tired ass creates a file sharing account to upload the demo
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Can you see what?
ED_THE_WOLF_: Can I see the demo.
ED_THE_WOLF_: ?
Endyss [GwDR]: Whut, far as I know there are only the demos by giller (in the admin forum) and triplebam in the dispute thread
{pDs} SNoB: fat pigeon also posted demo's
{pDs} SNoB: in the dispute thread
Endyss [GwDR]: ah ya
{pDs} SNoB: did you watch those too?
{pDs} WhutDuFuK? is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
Endyss [GwDR]: Let us know when you've got your demo available
{pDs} SNoB: http://www.mediafire.com/?djccwngaary
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Hi there
{pDs} SNoB: hmm
{pDs} SNoB: i hate this forum software =P
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Thanks
{pDs} SNoB: why cant i paste a link?
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Firefox 3?
{pDs} SNoB: 2
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Weird
{pDs} SNoB: like when i hit the url button, it dosent want to put the link up
Endyss [GwDR]: You may have to edit the source.  Thats what I do.  Otherwise, just the text of the link that can be copy/paste will work
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: No idea what's wrong
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Anyway, I looked at pigeons demo.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: I'm gonna look at snobs
{pDs} SNoB: brb im gonna look at pigeons
{pDs} SNoB: mine only really shows the run speed
ED_THE_WOLF_: whose demo is this?
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Yeah, so there's barely anything in snobs demo
ED_THE_WOLF_: barely?
ED_THE_WOLF_: what does that mean?
ED_THE_WOLF_: Yes or no will do here.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: It means he gets banned after about 20 seconds
ED_THE_WOLF_: Did you get the fast run outta the spawn?
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: no
ED_THE_WOLF_: Spin up time?
ED_THE_WOLF_: Anything?
ED_THE_WOLF_: Snob?
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Looking at pigeon's second demo again
{pDs} SNoB: whoa, did you watch fat pigeons demo?
{pDs} SNoB: yeah
ED_THE_WOLF_: We had to have got something!
{pDs} SNoB: when the round is over, and everyone is supposed to run slower on the loosing team
{pDs} SNoB: he takes off at a sprint
{pDs} SNoB: im watching it again
Endyss [GwDR]: Everyone runs slower when you lose?
ED_THE_WOLF_: YOu empower hackers when you unbann them, you know.
Endyss [GwDR]: And you harm innocent players when you ban them without strong evidence.  I'll take your option
ED_THE_WOLF_: Then they can always say, "Hey, I got off last time."
ED_THE_WOLF_: harn
ED_THE_WOLF_: harm?
Endyss [GwDR] is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Ok
ED_THE_WOLF_: What?
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Minigun instant spin up time?
ED_THE_WOLF_: no spin down time
ED_THE_WOLF_: he can't run and jump for a second after he fires
ED_THE_WOLF_: but this guy just stops firing and runs
Endyss [GwDR]: I'm in game as a heavy right now, and that's how it works
ED_THE_WOLF_: right
Endyss [GwDR]: You hold down fire, and you're going slower while firing
ED_THE_WOLF_: right
{pDs} SNoB: endyss, you know at the end of the round, theres the few secconds where the winning team can go kill the loosing team?
Endyss [GwDR]: As soon as you let go of the fire button, the bullets stop, and your run speed picks back up as the animation raises the gun back up
Endyss [GwDR]: ya
{pDs} SNoB: thats waht i was talking about
Endyss [GwDR]: As far as I know, you don't go slower if you're on the losing team
{pDs} SNoB: i cant tell for sure, but it looks like he speeds up durring this part, even though hes on the loosing team
{pDs} SNoB: yeah you do
{pDs} SNoB: try it as a scout
{pDs} SNoB: you will notice
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: huh... I never noticed that either
{pDs} SNoB: really? never
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: *shrug*
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Must be a slight change
{pDs} SNoB: if you try and run away as a scout, a medic can meele you
ED_THE_WOLF_: You really shouldn;'t be making a call on this if you don;t understand.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: heh
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Ok
{pDs} SNoB: you know, im gonna let you guys decie, im done wasting my time with something that isnt my call
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Before I make any decision here
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: I just want to know
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: What the fuck your problems are
{pDs} SNoB: but ed, a note on debate, when you are trying to convince someone to side with your end of an argument/point, calling someone a noob dosent help =P
ED_THE_WOLF_: Snob, we did all we could. If the administration who doesn;t even understand makes a decision, there is nothing you can do.
{pDs} SNoB: i dun have a problem
{pDs} SNoB: i dropped the issue, ed asked me to talk to endyss about what i saw
{pDs} SNoB: and like ive said before, im just telling you what i saw, and my opinion, im not an admin
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: With that said
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Can any of you find any reference of a cheat that does the cooldown thing anywhere?
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: I'm having trouble finding anything like that
ED_THE_WOLF_: It is called a speed hack
ED_THE_WOLF_: look it up on youtube
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: lol
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: You kill me, ed
{pDs} SNoB: i honestly havent looked, but it would be part of the speed hack, it speeds up everything in the game
ED_THE_WOLF_: right
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Yeah, I've found a couple speed hacks
ED_THE_WOLF_: cooldown
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: My issue
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Is the cooldown aspect. I must be missing something because his movement doesn't seem different to me, but the cooldown does seem different
ED_THE_WOLF_: right
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: So, smartass, speedhacks generally alter movement speed
ED_THE_WOLF_: well, he also had that
ED_THE_WOLF_: For some reason, it isn't noticeable in the demos
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Yeah, it's not
{pDs} SNoB: hmm, im going to try something
ED_THE_WOLF_: I think it is easier to see when you are not watchign just him.
ED_THE_WOLF_: No refereence, you know.
{pDs} SNoB is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
ED_THE_WOLF_: I spectated the medic behind him (who was teh same medic today on the server) and saw that he was moving faster than the medic.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: I do know. I also know that we don't just ban people because other people say so. We use demos to confirm these suspicions. These demos show something, but it seems more laggy than anything. While I will admit something fishy does appear to be going on, I can't pinpoint exactly what it is. It feels like lag to me mostly.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: So how hard is it to get a demo of that?
Endyss [GwDR]: The cooldown ANIMATION seem odd on MacBeth, but the stopping firing then resuming normal speed seems normal for heavies.
Endyss [GwDR]: Also, SNoB, I just recorded a demo testing the speed change on a scout when the round is lost, and speed does NOT change
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Yeah, the animation is funky, but timing doesn't seem different. I've seen gun animations tweak with lag before
{pDs} SNoB: yeah you run slower when the round ends and you loose, unless that was updated in the last week
ED_THE_WOLF_: You will admit something is wrong, but what are you going to do?
Endyss [GwDR]: An animation issue isn't a hack, and doesn't alter the way the game is played
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: I'm going to analyze all the facts, Ed. This is why we're here. I'm not going to ban someone for lagging.
ED_THE_WOLF_: He was not lagging.
{pDs} SNoB: and just to say something, I know ed is a little heated about this, but i have played alot of hours with him, and he really isnt the type to go around pounting the finger at people for hacking
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: The other issue is we're seeing different things here
{pDs} SNoB: if someone beats him at the game, hes fine with that
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: You're saying his cooldown time is off
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: I'm saying his spin up time is off
{pDs} SNoB: well, both spin times
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: 3bam says spin up time is off
{pDs} SNoB: but the one i notice is, when he stops shooting at someone and runs
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: ok
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: one more time
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: I'm going to look at it one more time
{pDs} WhutDuFuK? is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
{pDs} SNoB is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
{pDs} SNoB is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: As soon as I let off the trigger I can run just fine. It's almost instantanious.
{pDs} SNoB is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
{pDs} SNoB: ok, i see something new
ED_THE_WOLF_: what is it?
{pDs} SNoB: it could be the animation is funky in the demo
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Yeah
{pDs} SNoB: on my demo right when hes running through the double doors, his gun looks like its horizontal before he jumps
{pDs} SNoB: which i just tested and i cant do
{pDs} SNoB: it could just be animation with the demo
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Yeah
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: That's what I'm seeing
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: I've seen that in demos before
{pDs} SNoB: i dunno, could just be demo, but now that im trying it, once the gun leaves the vertical position you cant jump
ED_THE_WOLF_: right
{pDs} SNoB: and it dosent matter if you just tap the buttion, the gun goes all the way down, then back up
ED_THE_WOLF_: Right.
Endyss [GwDR]: For what it's worth, MacBeth says that DOES happen in his game
{pDs} SNoB: what happens?
Endyss [GwDR]: The full animation
ED_THE_WOLF_: I'm telling you, this guy is dirty.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: endyss
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: record a demo of yourself doing the animations and then watch it
Endyss [GwDR]: does it do the same?
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: dunno
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: that's why I asked you to do it
Endyss [GwDR]: Let me check, though I'd say it won't indicate much
Endyss [GwDR]: Mainly be because I'm recording myself
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: well fuck
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: go demo someone in one of the tempests
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: as heavy
Endyss [GwDR]: can do
ED_THE_WOLF_: demo macbeth, lol
{pDs} SNoB: well i just made a demo of myself trying to jump as a heavy on the scrim server
{pDs} SNoB: i cant make it look like when he jumps
ED_THE_WOLF_: right
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Endyss is going to demo a heavy right now, then I'll let you know what we've decided
{pDs} SNoB: well im going to get back to playing
{pDs} SNoB: i will say, he was out playing gun slinger, and bendy as a heavy, and it didnt seem like a clear case of skill
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Yeah
{pDs} SNoB: like when i play against daniel as a demo, or giller as a soldier or nolsireno as a scout
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: I believe you
ED_THE_WOLF_: rigth, he was runnign around lost, like he didn't know where to go.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: The issue is not whether or not I believe you
{pDs} SNoB: i know
ED_THE_WOLF_: It isn't?
{pDs} SNoB: anyhow im going to get back to having fun
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Sounds good
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Thanks for the discussion
{pDs} SNoB: nope its not ED, its wiether or not, anyone could look at the demo and say "oh, thats why that guy was banned, hes hacking"
ED_THE_WOLF_: Thank you snob. We did our best.
Endyss [GwDR] is now playing Team Fortress 2. Click here to join.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Ed, regardless of what we decide. Feel free to never play on my servers again.
{pDs} SNoB: i figure if the guy sticks around, and more people say stuff, and someone catching something more convicing on a demo, he will get a ban
ED_THE_WOLF_: Thanks.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Snob, that's the issue right there
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: If he's cheating, he'll be caught eventually with solid evidence. This evidence is still iffy
{pDs} SNoB: but, WDF, on a side note, im not even sure if you should be making the calls on the demo's
{pDs} SNoB: you admit yourself you dont play tf2 anymore
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Which means I don't know how it works?
ED_THE_WOLF_: I agree with that, snob.
{pDs} SNoB: no, and trust me im not trying to tell you how to run this
{pDs} SNoB: but, if you arent playing, you might not be as familar with the game physics as another one of your admins
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: The same group of admins who determined he wasn't cheating?
{pDs} SNoB: but thats just my opinion
{pDs} SNoB: see, i dont know how the whole process works, if its a panel, and everyone has to agree, then thats fine
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: It is
{pDs} SNoB: ok, i wasnt sure how it works
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: The way this is set up as follows
{pDs} SNoB: im not an admin =P
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Every single ban is reported
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: If it's for hacking
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Demos must be provided
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: With conclusive evidence
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: The demos are then reviewed by everyone
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: And a discussion takes place on the pros and cons
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Each demo is looked over carefully
ED_THE_WOLF_: Listen, this is my closer.  think his ban should stay. You admins are not listening to reason. Four people saw him and spectated him to watch his hacks and unamimously called him out. Also, you do not know how the game is played. You do not know the about the heavy spin down time or running slower at the end of the match. And finally, you don't trust your own people! Three of your own people got him and banned him. I do not think I will continue to play at Tempest servers. Thank you for reviewing this case. I hope in the future you are more inclined to listen rather than assert your power and push the good, honest players out of the game. When hackers cheat, they can be dealt with efficiently and in a timely manner. Here, the hacker is gieven a free pass.
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Don't let the door hit you, fuckhole.
ED_THE_WOLF_: Thanks, again.
{pDs} SNoB: hey WDF, do you think you could post that process in the ban dispute forum sticky
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Yes
{pDs} SNoB: just so people know that these arent snap descisions
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Also, just so you know
{pDs} SNoB: and that everything is reviewd by more than one person
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: The people that are too close to call
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Are heavily watched afterwards
{pDs} SNoB: i figured as much
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: We're not new to this
{pDs} SNoB: i know that
{pDs} SNoB: but some servers, only one person will make the descision about weither or not someone is banned
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: And while I may be out of the loop for TF2 mechanics (which I'm not sure is true, as Endyss seems to think that the slow down thing at the end of a round doesn't exist either, and he plays often), I am one of many admins who review and decide as a group
Endyss [GwDR]: I have a demo of the slowdown thing NOT happening, in fact
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Snob, I never make those decisions
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: I try and stay away from that whole process and leave it to the group
{pDs} SNoB: ok
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Only when there is a serious issue like this
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Where there is such a strong feeling for or against with no resolution that I come in
ED_THE_WOLF_: does anyone have a link to that post?
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Anyway, snob. I'll update the sticky to reflect the process better now.
{pDs} SNoB: http://www.wdfnews.com/f....aspx?g=posts&t=9196
{pDs} SNoB: i think people will appreciate that
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: I ask that you please understand that we don't take this lightly and that we do try and do our best. However, I've found over the years that this method is best for avoiding false positives
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: The collective minds of the admins seem to think there isn't sufficient evidences against him. After reviewing the demos, I tend to agree. However, know that he will be watched very closely. I'll even make a note about it for the admins to keep an eye on him whenever he's playing.
{pDs} SNoB: ok, im going to get back to having fun
{pDs} WhutDuFuK?: Not that my vote matters, as you both have pointed out.



As of tonight Macbeth is remaining unbanned.

The discussion isn't over on the issue, but for tonight this is where it stands.

Glad you can laugh at your own jokes. Allow me to clarify for the dense:

I've been banned from two dozen servers under the accusation of cheating.

So long, Wolf.