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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin, Administration
Joined: 3/27/2008 Posts: 1,702 Points: 3,101 Location: Arizona
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I've dropped hints here and there that I'm looking at upgrading my server (or outright replacing it) which should give us a nice platform to run games from. My current server--running our two minor TF2 servers, two L4D2 servers, and Minecraft--is pretty much maxed out on every resource. And it didn't perform well with a lot of players in TF2 to begin with. Preliminary research has lead me to believe I can get a pretty nice machine for $1800-$2000, and I have the hope of being able to run upwards of 10 CPU-intensive game instances (TF2/L4D2) and 4-6 memory-intensive game instances (Minecraft). Not that I'd actually run that many... but I hope to have that sort of capacity. Though I'm sure tech will change by the time I get to ~$2000 saved up, I'm tentatively planning on dual quad-core Xeons (8 core total) and 16GB of RAM. And a motherboard to match. Everything else I have now is hopefully usable, though I might need to upgrade from a 1U to 2U. =/ But I digress. Thanks to my refund check I currently have $550 saved for the cause. I hope to be able to put $50 into it per month, but that's coming out of my personal "allowance" which I also need to buy gifts for people for holidays and shit. So it may vary. I won't turn away donations but let me make this clear: bragr gets first dibs on donations as long as he's providing us with the Tempest. A new server is a nice long-term plan, but the Tempest is a known short-term commitment. Hopefully we won't need to dump the money we are on it once mine gets upgraded. $300 every 6 months for the Tempest still makes me squirm. If anyone has any server/hardware advise, please share. It's a tough topic to research since you usually end up at sites of companies offering server rentals. Meh.
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Rank: Fuckstick

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User
Joined: 12/14/2007 Posts: 1,169 Points: 2,697 Location: Near Seattle
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Hmm...seems to me like the only one of "our" (meaning Bragr's or Rikaelus's) getting any use is the Minecraft one. I haven't seen anybody play on the Tempest in a looong time. Maybe it would be better if we just save up our monies until the next REAL attention-grabbing game comes out? I don't know :/  Quote:Razor: As hard as one might try no one will ever be able to pull one over on Super Penguin. Backpack of Win
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin, Administration
Joined: 3/27/2008 Posts: 1,702 Points: 3,101 Location: Arizona
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Super Penguin wrote:Hmm...seems to me like the only one of "our" (meaning Bragr's or Rikaelus's) getting any use is the Minecraft one. I haven't seen anybody play on the Tempest in a looong time. Maybe it would be better if we just save up our monies until the next REAL attention-grabbing game comes out? I don't know :/ Probably worth a vote, assuming bragr doesn't just pull the plug due to lack of donations. Last I saw he was pretty far away from getting paid back for the last rental fee.
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Server Admin, Administration
Joined: 6/18/2009 Posts: 1,422 Points: -25,484 Location: USA, Indiana
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No I agree, our TF2 server has been dead for a month now. I'm burned out on seeding the server, honestly. We can't keep it full, and when I want to play TF2, I don't have 3 hours to get it going again. Rik, besides the hardware cost, whats the upkeep on a server like that? Could you break it down too? I'm curious how the expenses come out. I would totally help you build the server if we can make something we can use for all sorts of games, and costs less to run. Right now, its $150 for 6 months of 24 player TF2. BEAT THAT! I'm excited!! This could be cool. I think pDs could benefit from more game hopping. Example; we have no MNC servers. We could have an MNC server if we had our own servers. When MNC dies, we can totally move on painlessly...I hope. I don't know anything about servers besides they let us play online games (but I'm learning about them). If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan My Backpack
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin, Administration
Joined: 3/27/2008 Posts: 1,702 Points: 3,101 Location: Arizona
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Muffalopadus wrote:No I agree, our TF2 server has been dead for a month now. I'm burned out on seeding the server, honestly. We can't keep it full, and when I want to play TF2, I don't have 3 hours to get it going again.
Rik, besides the hardware cost, whats the upkeep on a server like that? Could you break it down too? I'm curious how the expenses come out. I would totally help you build the server if we can make something we can use for all sorts of games, and costs less to run. Right now, its $150 for 6 months of 24 player TF2. BEAT THAT!
I'm excited!! This could be cool. I think pDs could benefit from more game hopping. Example; we have no MNC servers. We could have an MNC server if we had our own servers. When MNC dies, we can totally move on painlessly...I hope. I don't know anything about servers besides they let us play online games (but I'm learning about them). Here's a rough estimate of costs: Some case like this: $600 (if I can't use my existing 1U) Some Supermicro motherboard: $450 Then a couple quad core CPUs: $240 x2 ($480) And 4 4GB memory sticks $132 x4 ($528) I have harddrives already that can be used. Okay so that all comes to like.. $2058. But it's ballpark. Some pieces I can get from Amazon Prime w/o tax or shipping, and others I can get cheaper from the place my employer buys equipment from. And if things get too pricey out the door I can slim it back to one CPU, half the memory, etc., then buy more later on. Regular expenses aren't a concern. My employer will host it for free so long as I don't do a crazy amount of bandwidth. Just checking with them to make sure it's okay to replace my 1U with a 2U. The only limitation might be that I only do Linux OS. Most game developers are smart enough to release Linux server software, but not all of them. I guess I can consider going Windows but there will be extra costs with that and I have no idea how to administrate a Windows server. We might not get the same bang for the buck with Windows, either, since it comes with a much higher overhead than Linux. P.S. Yeah, I know that CPU won't work with that MB. Again, just ballpark.
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Rank: Fuckstick

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User
Joined: 12/14/2007 Posts: 1,169 Points: 2,697 Location: Near Seattle
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Wow, $600 for a case seems outrageous to me, but I suppose it is a server rack case w/ power supply...  Quote:Razor: As hard as one might try no one will ever be able to pull one over on Super Penguin. Backpack of Win
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin, Administration
Joined: 3/27/2008 Posts: 1,702 Points: 3,101 Location: Arizona
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Super Penguin wrote:Wow, $600 for a case seems outrageous to me, but I suppose it is a server rack case w/ power supply... Yeah, hopefully I can find one for cheaper. I've come to like Supermicro for server chassis and motherboards, but not all of their motherboards fit all of their cases well. The above motherboard/chassis is a combo that works and had good reviews. I'll probably get some more options once I talk to someone in person from that reseller my employer works with. Ideally they have a modern dual xeon motherboard that fits in the 1U chassis I have now, but I doubt I'm that lucky. The MB I have now is actually a dual xeon but a lot has changed in the 6-7 years it's been since I bought it.
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Server Admin, Administration
Joined: 6/18/2009 Posts: 1,422 Points: -25,484 Location: USA, Indiana
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Neat. I know you said your employer would let you use their internet, but what if you had to buy your own? I always figured servers would use a lot of bandwidth. If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan My Backpack
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin, Administration
Joined: 3/27/2008 Posts: 1,702 Points: 3,101 Location: Arizona
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Muffalopadus wrote:Neat. I know you said your employer would let you use their internet, but what if you had to buy your own? I always figured servers would use a lot of bandwidth. Probably in the $100-$200/month range. Colocation ain't cheap. =/ It might be more for a 2U, since they take twice the space of a 1U. I might be able to pull off free hosting even if I leave the company. The cabinet is technically called "Friends and Family", so maybe I could pull off being a standing friend of the company. =P The only real limitation is that I can't use the server for any commercial purpose.
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin, Administration
Joined: 3/27/2008 Posts: 1,702 Points: 3,101 Location: Arizona
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Update on the kind of server I'm eyeballing. NewEgg.com Combo Deal1x SUPERMICRO SYS-6026T-NTR+ 2U Rackmount Dual LGA 1366 Dual Intel Xeon Intel 5520 8 x 3.5" SATA Hot-Swap Bays Server Barebone 2x Intel Xeon E5620 Westmere 2.4GHz LGA 1366 80W Quad-Core Server Processor BX80614E5620 2x Kingston ValueRAM 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 ECC Registered Server Memory Model KVR1333D3D8R9SK3/6G 1x Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive Which comes tot he combo price of $1,969.99. I'd prefer getting two hard drives, either 1TB each or just 500GB, and then mirroring them for redundancy. And storage has never been a concern. I have 500GB drives in the server now and they're only 35% full. Plus the chassis has room for 8 drives, so it's not like I couldn't add more later if needed. That combo is also only 12GB of memory versus the 16GB I originally planned, but again we're just talking ballpark. That motherboard has 18 (yes 8-fucking-teen) memory slots, so plenty of room to grow there if needed. Anyways.. just an update to make the tech junkies drool and reaffirm that we're looking at around ~$2000 for this sucker. P.S. You don't understand how tempted I am just to put this bitch on a credit card, but I fear several household/vehicle expenses are on the horizon. :(
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Server Admin, Administration
Joined: 6/18/2009 Posts: 1,422 Points: -25,484 Location: USA, Indiana
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DON"T DO IT RIK! Maybe if it was like $500...but not the whole shebang. That would be no good. So I can donate via the paypal button? If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan My Backpack
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin, Administration
Joined: 3/27/2008 Posts: 1,702 Points: 3,101 Location: Arizona
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Muffalopadus wrote:DON"T DO IT RIK! Maybe if it was like $500...but not the whole shebang. That would be no good.
So I can donate via the paypal button? In theory. I need a guinea pig, since I can't donate to myself to test it. =P It SHOULD ask you for your nick/SteamID. Let me know if it doesn't. I want to make sure to capture that for the reserved slot stuff.
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?

Groups: Registered User, Server Admin, {pDs} Member
Joined: 6/24/2008 Posts: 419 Points: 649 Location: Eden Prairie, Minnesota
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Once we get nice jobs again I'm sure we could contribute to a tf2 site :P McCheese wrote:I've always said all women are 2 drinks away from full on lesbian action Lead Salad wrote:I never figured whut for a fairy..wait, yes, yes I did. Snipme wrote:erk cant have me my penis will annilihate his ass hole
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Rank: Fuckstick

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User
Joined: 12/14/2007 Posts: 1,169 Points: 2,697 Location: Near Seattle
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That rig looks pretty sexy (and not in a Bragr kind of way). So remind me what all you expect to be able to do with it (how many different things it can do)?  Quote:Razor: As hard as one might try no one will ever be able to pull one over on Super Penguin. Backpack of Win
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin, Administration
Joined: 3/27/2008 Posts: 1,702 Points: 3,101 Location: Arizona
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Super Penguin wrote:That rig looks pretty sexy (and not in a Bragr kind of way).
So remind me what all you expect to be able to do with it (how many different things it can do)? I'll re-research expectations but as I recall from my first round, I left with the impression it should be able to handle upwards of 10 game instances. It's likely the many CPU cores that will matter the most to that. Naturally newer games will require more resources than TF2, so if we run--for example--something like BF:BC2 with destructible terrain, we may get fewer instances overall. Plus I think BF:BC2 might be Windows only... so that might not be a good example since the server will be some version of *nix--probably Gentoo since I know that best. I've toyed with the idea of paying for Windows server, but I'm very wary of that. I don't know the first thing about running DNS, MySQL, PHP, email, websites, etc. in Windows. So while that might be best for games, it's bad for everything else. And of course it costs more $$$. So to answer your question more broadly, besides the game instances it will be: - Running bind/DNS - Apache for websites (including hosting wdfnews.com eventually) - E-Mail, assuming I can figure out how to get that working... my previous co-admin helped with that before - MySQL database Nothing too fancy, really. The games will by far be the priority and the resource hogs.
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