|
|
Rank: Fuckstick
Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User
Joined: 4/7/2008
Posts: 1,092
Points: 1,953
|
In case you have been living under a rock, or are simply new to the community - I'm a high school English teacher. Over the course of the years, I have realized that some basic skills are not being taught at lower levels. When did you learn to write a basic 5 paragraph essay? Did you ever learn? Did it help you in your future writing projects? I'm just trying to figure out what exactly I should spend my time teaching that should have been taught before they made it to high school. Any other skills that you found to be useful?  Belligerent Pimp wrote: The Man Society just suspended my man card for a week for getting rickrolled by Mrs. Mary Midwestern Housewife.
|
|
|
Rank: Fecal Impaction For the Win!
Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 11/27/2007
Posts: 1,611
Points: 2,025
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
|
|
|
|
Rank: Coathanger Abortion
Groups: {pDs} Member, Server Admin
Joined: 5/17/2006
Posts: 3,455
Points: 1,891
Location: Undisclosed Location
|
1) how to write a coherent sentence 2) how to write a series of coherent sentences from there everything else flows. too bad they don't teach kids this shit anymore. Razor wrote:Killing people is good therapy.  
|
|
|
Rank: Taco Technician
Groups: Registered User, {pDs} Member
Joined: 5/9/2006
Posts: 3,933
Points: 3,591
Location: Hi-Five City
|
I never paid attention in english class. English fucking sucks, I learned how to write by reading.
|
|
|
Rank: Administration
Groups: Administration, Newsie, Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 11/6/2007
Posts: 985
Points: 777
|
I believe I was first introduced to the "three paragraph essay" and "five paragraph essay" and the concepts of introduction, conclusion, thesis statement and the like in the 5th-6th grade area. HolyJaw wrote:In the end, everything Endyss said.
|
|
|
Rank: Administration
Groups: Administration, Newsie, Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 11/6/2007
Posts: 985
Points: 777
|
Mrs.Crawdad wrote:In case you have been living under a rock, or are simply new to the community - I'm a high school English teacher. Lead Salad wrote:I never paid attention in english class. English fucking sucks, I learned how to write by reading. Smooth, man. Smooth. HolyJaw wrote:In the end, everything Endyss said.
|
|
|
Rank: Taco Technician
Groups: Registered User, {pDs} Member
Joined: 5/9/2006
Posts: 3,933
Points: 3,591
Location: Hi-Five City
|
lol ok it sucks in my opinion. Not to sound pompous or anything but I had my current level of proficiency in English around 9th grade. Seattle Public Schools has a tendency to review a lot of the same god damned bullshit over and over again. The math classes, up until calculus, are divided into "integrated math classes" which individually only cover maybe a semester of new material. 9th and 10th grade english might as well be the same thing. then for juniours and seniors they have LA options which are actually not that bad. I took Shakespeare, an environmental literature class that was supposed to be college level, some bullshit humanitarian lit class, and speech. Those were all pretty useful/fun. But this past quarter I took english 101 which was basically my 9th grade english class. On top of it being easy as hell half the class were ESL so the class moved pretty slowly. I guess that really says more about community college than english.. but the bottom line is I'm fucking bored with english and I want to be a physicist anyways so fuck it, I'll probably never use that knowledge ever again in my life.
|
|
|
Rank: Administration
Groups: {pDs} Member, Server Admin, WDFNews.com Official Mapper
Joined: 5/31/2006
Posts: 3,449
Points: 421
Location: Merryland
|
learned the 5 paragraph essay in 3rd grade. learned thesis' in the 9th, but i forget how to do them, so i omit it everytime. i'm in AP English Language now, so i don't use them anyway. they take everything i've learned and throws it out the window -.-  Cantrip wrote:When I die, I want to be reincarnated as a woman's jogging bra.
|
|
|
Rank: Fecal Impaction For the Win!
Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 1/1/2008
Posts: 1,640
Points: 2,534
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA
|
5th grade was my first one. It was easy, and it only taught me how to cheat the system for length. To this day, my essay-writing tools are outlines and a thick thesaurus ( replace bigger words for little ones ). It's easy enough, and a solid way to organize it. Introduction, three supports, conclusion, each receiving at least three sentences of support/content. It has not helped me in any area of my life outside of school. Ever. I strongly suspect that it never will Safety + Peace
|
|
|
Rank: Fuckstick
Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User
Joined: 1/14/2008
Posts: 979
Points: 1,841
Location: Michigan
|
Lead Salad wrote:lol ok it sucks in my opinion. Not to sound pompous or anything but I had my current level of proficiency in English around 9th grade. Seattle Public Schools has a tendency to review a lot of the same god damned bullshit over and over again. The math classes, up until calculus, are divided into "integrated math classes" which individually only cover maybe a semester of new material. 9th and 10th grade english might as well be the same thing. then for juniours and seniors they have LA options which are actually not that bad. I took Shakespeare, an environmental literature class that was supposed to be college level, some bullshit humanitarian lit class, and speech. Those were all pretty useful/fun.
But this past quarter I took english 101 which was basically my 9th grade english class. On top of it being easy as hell half the class were ESL so the class moved pretty slowly. I guess that really says more about community college than english.. but the bottom line is I'm fucking bored with english and I want to be a physicist anyways so fuck it, I'll probably never use that knowledge ever again in my life.
It took you until 9th grade to learn to write like that? For the love of God Mrs. Crawdad, please do your English teacher thing with the profane,pathetic, and grammatically incorrect abortion of the two paragraphs above. I hope you never have to write any grant applications in your career as a physicist.
(We learned the 5 paragraph essay exercise in 5th grade.) "I love the smell of napalm in the morning. Smells like ... victory"
|
|
|
Rank: Fecal Impaction For the Win!
Groups: Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 1/13/2008
Posts: 1,509
Points: 2,004
|
I think I learned the 5 paragraph essay in 5th grade. In any event, when I was in college i was in Honors english classes for the first year. Later, when I took some non-honors history and english classes as electives, I realized how most people really don't know how to write complete paragraphs and/or really complete thoughts. On top of that you basically have people just trying to get through it....they dont really care. I don't know how many history papers I read on "The significance of the meiji era" that were like reading pieces of sentances glued together from thier textbooks. No uniform ideas.
Personally I don't like writing essays..they jsut take me too long. But I recognize the importance of english classes in the "real world". People make assumptions about you very easily by your command of the written english language. If you really want to ruin your career, opportunities, or first impressions...then don't pay attention in english class. You can't be smart, and not well written...or people don't care...they still think you are an idiot because you are telling them you are.
Quote:
"Who the fuck is Leon Switch and why does he know we have a dog?" - Mrs. Giller
|
|
|
Rank: Administration
Groups: Server Admin, Administration, {pDs} Member, Registered User
Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,013
Points: 2,764
|
Mrs.Crawdad wrote:In case you have been living under a rock, or are simply new to the community - I'm a high school English teacher.
Over the course of the years, I have realized that some basic skills are not being taught at lower levels.
When did you learn to write a basic 5 paragraph essay?
Did you ever learn?
Did it help you in your future writing projects?
I'm just trying to figure out what exactly I should spend my time teaching that should have been taught before they made it to high school.
Any other skills that you found to be useful? As and english teacher you should know that you should never write a "5 paragraph essay" past freshman year. That type of essay is there to teach young people the basic constructs of essays. After that you should be writing in a more fluid format, though still holding up all the makings and formalities that are inherent in an essay. An 5 paragraph essay tends to go like this:
- Intro
- Canned clunky intro
- Thesis
- Point 1
- Point 2
- Point 3
- Repeat intro
While a proper high school essay
- Intro
- Attention getting, and relevant intro, possibly a quote
- Transition to the {novel|poem|subject}
- Thesis
- No real out line but a direction
- Then as many paragraphs and points as needed to back up thesis.
- Flows together, often relying on previous points and examples
- Lots of direct evidence/quotations
- True conclusion
The 5 paragraph essay, while useful for teaching writing to 5-7th graders breads mundane, and formulaic essays that tend to be light on any real logic or creativity and should be ditched as early as possible. I know that you are a teacher, and I am not, but I have taken enough AP, Honors, and GATE, english classes to know what I am talking about.
|
|
|
Rank: Taco Technician
Groups: Registered User, {pDs} Member
Joined: 5/9/2006
Posts: 3,933
Points: 3,591
Location: Hi-Five City
|
virus wrote:
Lead Salad wrote:lol ok it sucks in my opinion. Not to sound pompous or anything but I had my current level of proficiency in English around 9th grade. Seattle Public Schools has a tendency to review a lot of the same god damned bullshit over and over again. The math classes, up until calculus, are divided into "integrated math classes" which individually only cover maybe a semester of new material. 9th and 10th grade english might as well be the same thing. then for juniours and seniors they have LA options which are actually not that bad. I took Shakespeare, an environmental literature class that was supposed to be college level, some bullshit humanitarian lit class, and speech. Those were all pretty useful/fun.
But this past quarter I took english 101 which was basically my 9th grade english class. On top of it being easy as hell half the class were ESL so the class moved pretty slowly. I guess that really says more about community college than english.. but the bottom line is I'm fucking bored with english and I want to be a physicist anyways so fuck it, I'll probably never use that knowledge ever again in my life.
It took you until 9th grade to learn to write like that? For the love of God Mrs. Crawdad, please do your English teacher thing with the profane,pathetic, and grammatically incorrect abortion of the two paragraphs above. I hope you never have to write any grant applications in your career as a physicist.
(We learned the 5 paragraph essay exercise in 5th grade.)
 There's a difference between writing professionally and writing on an internet forum
|
|
|
Rank: Polio Power!
Groups: Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 6/14/2008
Posts: 620
Points: 1,278
Location: San Diego
|
I think I learned the concepts about the five paragraph somewhere in 9th grade. I had the tools and never did crap with them. I became very talented in their use during the first few Philosophy classes I took in college. I think this may illustrate the fundamental flaw in the english study guide.
We don't teach kids how to want to write something, nor do we teach them something worth writing about. Because of being kind to all, an argumentative essay doesn't get pushed onto someone with a meaty topic until college. By then, most all people are going to be set in their ways and choose to do what they want when it comes to writing. Up until this point of actual interesting topics, people learn only what they need to during english class, that is how to pass. Does this promote actual learning to the point of utilization? Hell no, it teaches a kid to cheat the system just enough to pass through it without having to be bothered too much by it. This is exactly what I did during junior high and the few years I was in high school before dropping out (I realized just how boring the whole affair was and pointless and got out.)
yea, I'll blame anyone who teaches the five paragraph (or aristotelian argumentative essay) before teaching something that it needs to be used FOR. Giving a person a hammer and telling them it can hit stuff is nowhere near as usefull as handing someone a board and a nail and asking them to put the one through the other. THEN giving them the hammer demonstrates the usefullness of the tool the best. Alas that is not how the english teachings utilized in school work. They teach the tool without the purpose and thus very few care enough to learn. I know I sure as heck didn't, couldn't see the point for the life of me during the time where it was being taught.
|
|
|
Rank: Fuckstick
Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User
Joined: 1/14/2008
Posts: 979
Points: 1,841
Location: Michigan
|
bragr wrote:Mrs.Crawdad wrote:In case you have been living under a rock, or are simply new to the community - I'm a high school English teacher.
Over the course of the years, I have realized that some basic skills are not being taught at lower levels.
When did you learn to write a basic 5 paragraph essay?
Did you ever learn?
Did it help you in your future writing projects?
I'm just trying to figure out what exactly I should spend my time teaching that should have been taught before they made it to high school.
Any other skills that you found to be useful? As and english teacher you should know that you should never write a "5 paragraph essay" past freshman year. That type of essay is there to teach young people the basic constructs of essays. After that you should be writing in a more fluid format, though still holding up all the makings and formalities that are inherent in an essay. An 5 paragraph essay tends to go like this:
- Intro
- Canned clunky intro
- Thesis
- Point 1
- Point 2
- Point 3
- Repeat intro
While a proper high school essay
- Intro
- Attention getting, and relevant intro, possibly a quote
- Transition to the {novel|poem|subject}
- Thesis
- No real out line but a direction
- Then as many paragraphs and points as needed to back up thesis.
- Flows together, often relying on previous points and examples
- Lots of direct evidence/quotations
- True conclusion
The 5 paragraph essay, while useful for teaching writing to 5-7th graders breads mundane, and formulaic essays that tend to be light on any real logic or creativity and should be ditched as early as possible. I know that you are a teacher, and I am not, but I have taken enough AP, Honors, and GATE, english classes to know what I am talking about.
Better. You might get that grant to investigate quantum dots after all. "I love the smell of napalm in the morning. Smells like ... victory"
|
|
|
| Users browsing this topic |
|
Guest
|