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Banned for "Team Stacking" Options
Godofgrunts
#1 Posted: : Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:48:15 PM
Rank: Frozen Penguin

Groups: Registered User

Joined: 6/28/2009
Posts: 4
Points: 12
Original post is here. I was informed I was in the wrong area.

While playing on the server "The Tempest #1 OFFICIAL MAPS-HLSTATSX-WDFNews.com" server IP "207.210.252.108:27016" at 1:25 am EST on 6/29/2009 I was banned for "team stacking" by "{pDs} WDFuckingChickenNuggets!!".

The following people were also banned with me.

God of Grunts (me)
Ikimono
VanillaNinja09
sooth
Ender etnaD

For one, nothing in your server rules states that friends playing on the same team is against the rules. He was just upset that his team was being defeated repeatedly. Secondly, he demanded that we split up or leave and that we "Can go stack teams on your own time."

I would greatly appreciate my friends and I to be un-banned from your servers (since your server is in our top three favorites) and for some sort of disciplinary action to be carried out on this Mod.

My steam ID is STEAM_0:1:21981840

WDF?
#2 Posted: : Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:50:20 PM
Rank: The Illuminist



Groups: Administration

Joined: 5/8/2006
Posts: 8,375
Points: 2,755
Location: Seattle
The server rules scroll through the server as advertisements constantly. We pretty much have three rules.

1. Don't be a dick.

2. No Racial Slurs

and

3. No clan stacking.


Here's how the events went down.

5 of you on one team. In fact, all of your clan in the server on one team. The admins had scrambled the teams a couple times, and obviously you didn't get the hint, as every time they'd do so you'd rejoin the same team.

So, I explained to you that we didn't allow clan stacking in the server. You and your good buddies then decided to verbally rampage me, as well as question my authority as moderator of the server.

I pay the bills. My rule is law. Period.

You then proceeded to argue with me for a substantial amount of time while I was still attempting to explain the situation to you in hopes that we could come to some agreement.

You weren't having it.


So you were booted.


You then chose to rejoin the server and launch into me. In your absence, your mates called me all sorts of colorful names.

I once again explained the rules to you, and instead of saying "ok, I understand." and splitting up a couple of your guys, you demanded I "bring up the rules" for you to read. Whatever that means.

They are constantly being displayed. Just because you choose not to read them is hardly my problem. Furthermore, when an admin explains the rules to you, you can either A. Follow them, or B. Be a complete fuckwad and harass them until they ban you. You and your posse chose the latter.

While most of your comments were done over voice, as were a substantial amount of your idiot friends, here are some colorful excerpts.


2009-06-28 18:18:22 Say I said "do it faggot.".

Not sure how you guys expect to see positive results when you call admins faggots.

2009-06-28 18:18:18 Say I said "do it.".
2009-06-28 18:18:16 Say I said "do it.".
2009-06-28 18:18:15 Say I said "do it.".
2009-06-28 18:18:13 Say I said "do it.".
2009-06-28 18:18:10 Say I said "do it.".
2009-06-28 18:18:08 Say I said "no, ban me for playing with friends.".

I explained why I had banned you. It wasn't for playing with friends. It was for clan stacking, which I had warned you a number of times about.

2009-06-28 18:17:44 Say I said "ban me for playing with friends.".
2009-06-28 18:17:11 Say I said "ban us for being players".
2009-06-28 18:17:00 Say I said "waiting for bad reason ban".
2009-06-28 18:16:54 Say I said "*zzz*".
2009-06-28 18:16:18 Say I said "pop the rules up for me again.".

They pop up constantly.

2009-06-28 18:16:08 Say I said "pop the rules up.".
2009-06-28 18:15:54 Say I said "we're playing the game.".
2009-06-28 18:15:50 Say I said "we are following the rules".
2009-06-28 18:15:27 Say I said "so, way to be an abusive admin".
2009-06-28 18:11:52 Say I said "we're not trolling".
2009-06-28 18:10:55 Say I said "see how well that worked?".

This was one of my favorites. Taunting the admin team for scrambling the teams in a non-confrontational way and then shoving it back in our faces. Quality.


From another one of your lovely squad:

2009-06-28 18:16:26 Say I said "yeah ban us cause we suck".

Apparently you all have basic comprehension skill deficiencies. I explained a dozen times why the ban occurred.

2009-06-28 18:16:07 Say I said "we're reporting you on your site".

It's always a good idea to report the owner of the server and companion website to... the owner of the server and companion website.

2009-06-28 18:15:59 Say I said "You're an asshole and bullshitting us".

Lovely.

2009-06-28 18:15:49 Say I said "Follow the rules?".

Please do.

2009-06-28 18:13:12 Say I said "way to be a pussy".

Yeah...

2009-06-28 18:06:37 Say I said "dude".
2009-06-28 18:06:25 Say I said "way to be a terrible mod".
2009-06-28 18:05:57 Say I said "really...".
2009-06-28 18:05:53 Say I said "really,,,".


Still confused as to why you and your buddies got the boot?

This was a fraction of the shit you guys were pulling. Unfortunately I can't transcribe idiots on microphones.



I'll be sure to discipline myself.


[13:58] TheSpaniard84: I have a kitty stuck to my rump
[13:58] WhuTdufK: I suppose that's better than what's normally stuck to your rump.
defiance
#3 Posted: : Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:52:12 PM
Rank: You're gonna stick that where?

Groups: Registered User

Joined: 5/5/2009
Posts: 353
Points: 1,113
Location: San Antonio
All thought i don't think you should have been banned. That doesn't mean you guys are in the right. WDF is a server admin. I believe there is a rule on the MOTD for tempest servers saying listen to admins. If not, its pretty much common sense. I understand that you guys are just friends, and you want to play with eachother (pun intended). However, extreme team stacking is no fun either. Usually because in pubs there aren't always a team full of good players, and even a good player can't beat 5 ok players using team work. I would have done the same thing with the team switch. If it has to be done more then once, and you guys are warned more then once, then there is an issue. Also, if you guys are doing the whole "we only uber and medic each other" then thats pretty lame. Of course, we don't know the whole story, we only know your side. If you were warned multiple times by a server admin, then something had to be done, empty threats never work out.

I've been on the wrong side of some pretty horrible team stacks. It is no fun at all, and even though I usually try and beat the stack, sometimes it is difficult. Overall, you guys were in the wrong, although server admins are not always right. When you are given a warning about doing something...maybe not wrong, but makes the server less fun for others, you should listen to that admin. If it was me, and I had done the team switch, then you guys went to spectate or something, I probably would have kicked you after that.
[CMS]defiance - Steam: defiance018 - Xfire: defianceoby - www.constantmayhem.com
WDF?
#4 Posted: : Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:53:06 PM
Rank: The Illuminist



Groups: Administration

Joined: 5/8/2006
Posts: 8,375
Points: 2,755
Location: Seattle
"AdMessages"
{
"0" "The Tempest TF2 Network, Hosted By WDFNews.com"
"1" "We Want Your Feedback! WDFNews.com"
"2" "{pDs} Is Recruiting! WDFNews.com"
"3" "$5 Earns You A Reserved Slot! WDFNews.com"
"4" "RULE: REFRAIN FROM USING RACIAL SLURS"
"5" "WDFNews.com's Servers Are Community Financed! We Need Your Help! Donate Today!"
"6" "{pDs} Is An Open Clan Welcoming Players From All Skill Levels! Apply Today! WDFNews.com"
"7" "Tell Us How We Can Make Your Gaming Experience Better! WDFNews.com"
"8" "RULE: No Clan Stacking!"
"9" "The Tempest TF2 Servers. Raging Your Shit Since 2007"
"10" "Okay, the round is over now. You win! Go to the enemy spawn room for your cake."
"11" "All Tempest Servers are HLSTATSX Enabled. Stats are Linked for All Servers!"
"12" "Need an admin? Request one from the WDFNews.com Forums or Steam Community Group"
"13" "Join Our Steam Community Group Today! Search WDFNews.com"
"14" "There's a Snake in my Boot"
"15" "Join the WDFNews.com Steam Community Group for the Latest WDFNews.com Info"
"16" "We Want to Hear From You! Visit the WDFNews.com Forums and Tell Us How Much We Suck."
"17" "Admins are on call via our Steam Community Page. Feel Free to Request One"
"18" "Cake and Grief Counseling will be available for all players at the conclusion of the round."
"19" "JOIN {pDs} TODAY YOU TWAT!"
"20" "DONATE OR THE SERVERS MIGHT VANISH! WOOOOOOSH!"
"21" "RULE: DON'T BE A DICK."

Here's the list of adverts that run in the server. There are three rules. Can you spot them? I can.


[13:58] TheSpaniard84: I have a kitty stuck to my rump
[13:58] WhuTdufK: I suppose that's better than what's normally stuck to your rump.
defiance
#5 Posted: : Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:55:46 PM
Rank: You're gonna stick that where?

Groups: Registered User

Joined: 5/5/2009
Posts: 353
Points: 1,113
Location: San Antonio
Heh...I was pretty sure there was another side to this story then just "we were playing with friends and were banned"

*Agrees with WDF would have done the same thing on my server*
[CMS]defiance - Steam: defiance018 - Xfire: defianceoby - www.constantmayhem.com
WDF?
#6 Posted: : Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:59:07 PM
Rank: The Illuminist



Groups: Administration

Joined: 5/8/2006
Posts: 8,375
Points: 2,755
Location: Seattle
Also, please note that the chat logs posted above are taken from hlstatsx, and therefore say "I say" Those are not my quotes, but quotes of his buddies.


Also, they are displayed newest to oldest, as shown on the timestamps... so you kinda have to read them bottom to top.....



But yeah.


[13:58] TheSpaniard84: I have a kitty stuck to my rump
[13:58] WhuTdufK: I suppose that's better than what's normally stuck to your rump.
WDF?
#7 Posted: : Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:06:09 PM
Rank: The Illuminist



Groups: Administration

Joined: 5/8/2006
Posts: 8,375
Points: 2,755
Location: Seattle
So there's no confusion about whether or not I abused my powers. Here's my chat logs:

L 06/28/2009 - 22:10:37: [basechat.smx] {pDs} WDFuckingChickenNuggets!!<462><STEAM_0:0:136650><> triggered sm_say (text I guess this was hard to understand last time. This server has a policy of no clan-stacking.)
L 06/28/2009 - 22:10:56: [basechat.smx] {pDs} WDFuckingChickenNuggets!!<462><STEAM_0:0:136650><> triggered sm_say (text Either split up or troll some other server.)
L 06/28/2009 - 22:12:18: [basecommands.smx] "{pDs} WDFuckingChickenNuggets!!<462><STEAM_0:0:136650><>" kicked "[OCN] God of Grunts<424><STEAM_0:1:21981840><>" (reason "of")

Reason of...... well... not following server rules. Notice it was a kick, not a ban... at this point.


You rejoined. I stopped using admin chat: Please read the following logs from bottom to top.


2009-06-28 18:40:20 Say I said "ALL SENTRYS ARE DOWN!!!... except one".
2009-06-28 18:27:38 Say I said "Now I'm amused".
2009-06-28 18:18:09 Say I said "It's shocking".
2009-06-28 18:18:04 Say I said "And you choose to not only not follow them, but taunt the admins attempting to enforce said rules".
2009-06-28 18:17:48 Say I said "When we explain the rules".
2009-06-28 18:17:42 Say I said "I love when people think they have more say in how a server is run than those who pay for it".
2009-06-28 18:15:54 Say I said "No clan stacking.".
2009-06-28 18:15:41 Say I said "I'm abusive because I asked you nicely to follow simple server rules?".
2009-06-28 18:14:54 Say I said "Not in the mood tonight.".
2009-06-28 18:13:53 Say I said "No, just kidding.".
2009-06-28 18:13:16 Say I said "Thanks".
2009-06-28 18:12:08 Say I said "Ok, leet guy".
2009-06-28 18:06:57 Say I said "This is my server, therefore it's my time.".
2009-06-28 18:06:32 Say I said "Stack teams on your own time".



My favorite part of running a server though, and I'm dead serious, is when people act like assholes and then post complaints trying to get myself or my admins in trouble... It's awesome. It's like, how stupid do you think we are? We're not going to investigate your claims? Do you truly believe that after we investigate your claims you'll look favorable?


Please.


[13:58] TheSpaniard84: I have a kitty stuck to my rump
[13:58] WhuTdufK: I suppose that's better than what's normally stuck to your rump.
Noobina
#8 Posted: : Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:07:08 PM
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered User

Joined: 12/13/2008
Posts: 81
Points: 246
Location: Texas
If you were warned and you didn't listen, you are fair game for kicking/banning.

lol @ wdf being disciplined

Maybe show some respect for the admins of one of your "favorite servers"
Godofgrunts
#9 Posted: : Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:09:28 PM
Rank: Frozen Penguin

Groups: Registered User

Joined: 6/28/2009
Posts: 4
Points: 12
Whatever. None of those chat logs are mine since I was banned first. Regardless, you had no right to ban use for something that is not even in the rules. We were playing fair just like everyone else. I'm sorry your team wasn't good enough to match us, but that is not my fault.

Also, the rules don't pop up during gameplay, or at least I never saw them.

And we were banned for playing together. None of these "colorful names" were even said until I was kicked and then we started getting banned.

Maybe I misunderstood WDF. I thought your servers were trying to show integrity and sportsmanship, but if you want to be like that then fine. I've spent a lot of hours on your server and even recommended it to my friends (as is obvious). We were actually considering donating to get the reserved slots, but that is definitely not going to happen.
defiance
#10 Posted: : Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:14:44 PM
Rank: You're gonna stick that where?

Groups: Registered User

Joined: 5/5/2009
Posts: 353
Points: 1,113
Location: San Antonio
Godofgrunts wrote:
Whatever. None of those chat logs are mine since I was banned first. Regardless, you had no right to ban use for something that is not even in the rules. We were playing fair just like everyone else. I'm sorry your team wasn't good enough to match us, but that is not my fault.

Also, the rules don't pop up during gameplay, or at least I never saw them.

And we were banned for playing together. None of these "colorful names" were even said until I was kicked and then we started getting banned.

Maybe I misunderstood WDF. I thought your servers were trying to show integrity and sportsmanship, but if you want to be like that then fine. I've spent a lot of hours on your server and even recommended it to my friends (as is obvious). We were actually considering donating to get the reserved slots, but that is definitely not going to happen.


Well...I know i don't play on Tempest as much as I use to, but I can say that I don't recognize any of your names or the [OCN] clan tag.

It is ironic that you talk about integrity and sportsmanship, what is being described isn't either. It also shouldn't matter to you that you didn't say those exact things. Seeing as your clan mates said them, and there for represent you, and represent how your clan shows "integrity and sportsmanship". Also, those rules do pop up, he copied and pasted that from the server FTP. Plus, if the leader/owner/head admin of a server says something is a rule, whether or not You, me, or any1 else dislikes it, doesn't matter. If you were really not in the wrong, you would have not been banned, because you would have left, and came to these boards posting about how you think "clan stacking/team stacking" should not be against the rules.
[CMS]defiance - Steam: defiance018 - Xfire: defianceoby - www.constantmayhem.com
Sunfox
#11 Posted: : Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:15:20 PM
Rank: Administration


Groups: Administration, Registered User, Server Admin

Joined: 6/7/2006
Posts: 188
Points: 189
Location: Canada
The point is these are public servers, with many new and inexperienced players, and usually only a few players around with experience. You guys are obviously not new and inexperienced, so having 5 good players on one team doing the whole "I medic my buddy constantly" routine tends to end up in a steamroll of the other team. The solution to that is to move some of the good players to the other team, and the fairest way to do that is a scramble.

Alas you guys didn't get the hint - more than once - and kept going to spectate or switching back when others on the "desired" team either quit or got balanced to the other team, resulting once again in imbalanced teams.

I'm really not sure why you couldn't have fun pairing up against each other, but then again there is a certain type of player who only likes to play when the odds are heavily in their favor.

Teams in TF2 should be kept fair and balanced, and if players aren't capable of making the needed adjustments themselves then a mod should step in.

If you are incapable of playing against each other... then why shouldn't the bans stay?
Noobina
#12 Posted: : Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:16:05 PM
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered User

Joined: 12/13/2008
Posts: 81
Points: 246
Location: Texas
Even if the rules never popped up, an admin warned you. And that is that.
WDF?
#13 Posted: : Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:18:02 PM
Rank: The Illuminist



Groups: Administration

Joined: 5/8/2006
Posts: 8,375
Points: 2,755
Location: Seattle
Godofgrunts wrote:
Whatever. None of those chat logs are mine since I was banned first. Regardless, you had no right to ban use for something that is not even in the rules.



Sweet mother of christ. IT IS IN THE RULES. PLEASE DIRECT YOUR EYES TO THE ADS LIST IN MY PREVIOUS POSTING


Quote:
We were playing fair just like everyone else. I'm sorry your team wasn't good enough to match us, but that is not my fault.


After the scrambling, you and your squad were on my team. I banned you off of my team. It had nothing to do with my team not being good enough to match you.... because when you guys were banned you were on my team... have I repeated that enough to get that through?




Quote:
Also, the rules don't pop up during gameplay, or at least I never saw them.



Yes, yes they do. Anyone here will attest to that. Furthermore, an admin reminded you, politely, about the rules of the server. You chose to ignore the reminders of the admin team as well. Are you both blind and deaf?

Quote:
And we were banned for playing together. None of these "colorful names" were even said until I was kicked and then we started getting banned.


You can keep trying to butter up why you were banned, but I'm pretty sure anyone with any level of education can read the above logs + rules and put two and two together.

Quote:
Maybe I misunderstood WDF. I thought your servers were trying to show integrity and sportsmanship,


Please, enough with your passive aggressive shit.

Quote:
but if you want to be like that then fine. I've spent a lot of hours on your server and even recommended it to my friends (as is obvious). We were actually considering donating to get the reserved slots, but that is definitely not going to happen.



Reserved slots and donations do not make you excempt from the rules. It's clearly stated in the donations thread. You can get banned after donating just as easily as you got banned this evening.

With that said, I'm lifting your ban. All of your bans, actually. Permanent bans for name calling is a bit harsh.



Are we clear on the rules now?





[13:58] TheSpaniard84: I have a kitty stuck to my rump
[13:58] WhuTdufK: I suppose that's better than what's normally stuck to your rump.
Demer_Osis1
#14 Posted: : Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:20:05 PM
Rank: Frozen Penguin

Groups: Registered User

Joined: 6/28/2009
Posts: 7
Points: 21
Yea, I (Ikimono) was being a dick to you by the end of it. I wanted to play with my friend as a Heavy-Medic combo. Your team was doing fine before when we were playing as soliders, scouts, pyros, and demos or randomly changing classes to address a specific threat. (going sniper to kill a sniper who was keeping our team pinned, going demo to get rid of a pesky sentry...).

As soon as we went Heavy-Medic, that is when we started doing well and you started ignoring peoples votes against team scrambles. Any team that goes Heavy-Medic will do well, it's in the nature of the game.

Looking over at the rules http://wdfnews.com/wdf_postst11072_Official-Rules-for-all-WDFNewscom-Servers.aspx Which should be up-to-date rules, there is nothing about players from the same "clan" playing together. (two of us arent, we just put them on because we were all sitting in the same room having a lan party.) Anyrate:


If you don't un-ban us, at least update the list above so that people with complaints/Issues can read them and know word for word what the rules of the server were. (since they cant go back and quote them.)
Sunfox
#15 Posted: : Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:26:33 PM
Rank: Administration


Groups: Administration, Registered User, Server Admin

Joined: 6/7/2006
Posts: 188
Points: 189
Location: Canada
Playing random classes and generally being a good team player usually isn't a problem. The imbalance comes when heavily experienced players start playing together as a team within a team, usually ignoring other teammates and instead providing total dedication to their friends. That's fine during a clan match, but changes the dynamics of a public game, pushing that team forward and generally stomping the other team - even if there are a couple good players on that team.

The real problem is when you KNOW you're doing this, and blantently avoid attempts to correct the situation.

There's nothing wrong with medic buddy combos... in fact there are a fair number of those that frequent these servers. Just don't be a dick and put em all on the same team!
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